yanis: klebnikov

klebnikov
have you seen this about Paul Klebnikov? ... american expats in Moscow are of four major kinds in reverse order of their share in general population: bustling idiots, loosers, CIA agents and finally very successful businessmen, of whom there is may be only a handful. If we are to believe this piece coming from campy but definitely un-corrupt and unbiased exile.ru, written a while ago (so there's no way to link it with what happened to Mr.Klebnikov) - the late Paul Klebnikov likely belonged to the first category.
A person comes to Russia representing a serious corporate magazine and publishes tons of negative stuff about oligarchs and Lord know what else. I think the karmic consensus among the powers that be would be to off him for upsetting the balance.
An honest idiot with a political agenda often dies in Russia. No offense, but remember Mr.Yushenkov, Mrs.Starovoitov, Mr.Manevich - the list is way too long. To say it's KGB who killed him - is rather stupid.
It could have been just anyone. Information about him calling someone from the Russian Newsweek and telling him that he doesn't know who or why is obviously bullshit. If I were the guy from Newsweek that's exactly what I would have told everybody before packing my shit up and leaving. Another explanation of him not knowing could be much simpler - the deceased may not have been smart enough to figure it out.
Russian "Forbes" should have been an instrument of stability and positivity not a rag filled with dubious secret police "inside" fed to a clueless and biased expat.

Update
resources using Paul Klebnikov's books and references to them:
http://www.natvan.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?catid=10&sid=4YRKcz0-TCN8Ddg-55104340072.4b - the book on Berezovsky made it to the recomended reading list for a white man
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=54856-1 - lively discussion of the book on Boris Abramovich
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/ - Murdered journalist exposed Jewish corruption in ex-Soviet Union says the title

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	malaya_zemlya@lj 2004-07-11 17:05 (ссылка)
	Wow. He made it all the way to Stormfront. Amazing, given the typical attitude of a WASP nazi is that slavs are mutant mongoloid hordes from the East. Lesser of two evils, I guess. (Ответить)

graf_garcia@lj
2004-07-12 08:11 (ссылка)

campy but definitely un-corrupt and unbiased exile.ru+++

unbiased exile.ru
give me a break. next thing you'll tell me about the exile guys unaddicted to cocaine
truth-loving and never-inventing-nor-misreporting-facts marc ames.
oh right
not that i was a big fan of khlebnikov but ames is the last person whose opinion of someone's integrity/decency/etc should count

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yanis@lj
2004-07-12 08:38 (ссылка)

what does cocaine abuse have to do with anything?
who even cares of what exile.ru writes, if Klebnikov's books about yidomasonic oligarchs pillaging Russia are recognized by stormfront.org and others of the same ilk? i wasn't counting on Ames' opinion on anyone's integrity or decency nor do I care about it, I was refered to him quoting someone else calling Klebnikov what he was on a factual basis 2 years ago.
yes, exile.ru are unbiased compared to anything printed by the Russians.
they are certainly more objective and credible than conspiracy theorists participating in a circle jerk in

dolboeb@lj's LJ

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	jo_ho@lj 2004-07-12 10:16 (ссылка)
	Ну, насчет exile - только что за публикацию плагиата перед знакомым извинились. Причем ловко спиздили весьма неоднозначную статью. (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

graf_garcia@lj
2004-07-12 10:36 (ссылка)

1. cocaine abuse distorts one's perception of reality.
2. yidomasonic oligarchs++ one book. and i don't remember him using the yidomasonic definition. the other book was on chechens, i didn't read it i confess... did the chechen one refer to yudomasonic oligarchs?
3. are recognized by stormfront.org and others of the same ilk?+++ so now we need to ban all books, music, paintings and movies recognized by Hitler, Mussolini and others of the same ilk. you're setting tall and harsh criteria
4. quoting someone else calling Klebnikov what he was on a factual basis+++ that's the point. I just don't believe what Ames writes. Therefore I have no way to know whether this story has any ``factual basis'' at all. Ames's word certainly isn't enough. I met Khlebnikov a couple of times, he didn't strike me as an anti-Semite.
5. exile.ru are unbiased compared to anything printed by the Russians.
they are certainly more objective and credible++ no they are not. should we start a discussion on who's who in the russian media, who's biased, who's bjective and who's credible? i'd prefer to skip it but if you want let's do
6. conspiracy theorists participating in a circle jerk in dolboeb's LJ
++ this was a personal attack, was it?

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yanis@lj
2004-07-12 11:59 (ссылка)

1. don't be ridiculous. don't preach about the evils of cocaine trying to make a case for the russian media in the same time.
2. this is boring and beside the point
3. see 2. let's not ban anything
4. well - such logic strikes me as flawed. "I met Ninka and she didn't strike me as a whore therefore Ninka is not a whore" - there's a term for this, which I don't remember
5. yes they are. russian media except for maybe vedomosti are a biased and corrupt and i refuse to argue about it. When I say "corrupt" it implies that they do not adhere to the same standards of moral and business integrity as more reputable western media outlets do. Why I will not argue - I don't want to give specific examples as to not jeopardize specific people. You see, there are honest and good natured used car salesmen, prostitutes as well as russian journalists and GIBDD officers and I don't want to make a wrong impression.
6. no it's not. i mean it is a circle jerk which is quite ludicrous. it doesnt mean that everyone involved in it is a stupid jerk off - not at all. Besides - I never personally attack people I dont know

that's how it goes bro

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graf_garcia@lj
2004-07-12 12:19 (ссылка)

singling out just two points:
on I met ninka. My logic is the following: I met ninka and she didn't strike me as a whore, and i heard a reputed jerk and liar Misha calling her a whore, therefore I have no grounds to call her a whore.
on corrupt russian media: we can add a couple of outlets to vedomosti to list non-corrupt media (btw including rus forbes and rus newsweek:)) I ain't to whitewash the Rus media, actually I keep saying that corruption in the Rus media is a plague and the govt pressure is freckles. But I do insist that making the exile a yardstick for media standards is ridiculous and to base your opinion about a living person (ok, dead in this case but that doesn't matter) on what the exile writes is ridiculous as well.
to call someone an antisemite is quite a call, almost like calling someone a KGB rat or a thief. to make this call based on ames's testimony is a rather big stretch.

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back to the art of compromise

yanis@lj
2004-07-12 19:51 (ссылка)

The truth is that Misha is a jerk and a liar and Ninka is a whore.

now that we agree on almost all points I would only dare to suggest that calling someone an antisemite is not a big deal. I know several antisemites, some of whom are even my friends ... People have a right to be antisemites. Don;t know what a "KGB rat" is.. seriously and people are routinely calling others thieves all over the world, which is also normal.

Forbes was biased (partly because of Klebnikov's attitudes) though not corrupt. I wish he didn't get killed but please leave my beloved KGB out of this one.

It's a doggy-dog world. Peace out

btw, why are you writing in English? i am doing it because i dont like translit in LJ and there's no cyrillic keyboard in the house.

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Re: back to the art of compromise

graf_garcia@lj
2004-07-13 01:45 (ссылка)

a KGB rat is кгбшный стукач (at least in british eng). and where did i say the KGB was implicated in Kh murder??
I'm writing in english because, by and large, мне легче отвечать на том языке,на котором начат разговор (определять понятия и так вещь непростая, а уж определять понятия, гуляя с языка на язык, и вовсе). следуя пожеланиям трудящихся, теперь перехожу на русский.
а кириллическая клавиатура не обязательна. вон цифирица есть, к примеру.

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	graf_garcia@lj 2004-07-12 12:21 (ссылка)
	and evils of cocaine, compared to other substances, we'll save for later. (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

	vyastik@lj 2004-07-12 18:46 (ссылка)
	Пожалуй, не переври Хлебников слова Эймса, они бы подружились. (Ответить) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	yanis@lj 2004-07-12 19:17 (ссылка)
	quite possibly they would, yet I doubt it - the exile crew generaly hates all mainstream media. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	vyastik@lj 2004-07-13 15:50 (ссылка)
	both Exile is and Khlebnikov was leftyish. not Zyuganov-style, of course, but... erm... Dorenko-style. (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

Sic transit gloria mundi or what they say?

unicoder@lj
2004-07-13 18:57 (ссылка)

A friend of mine remembers him from London School of Business & political science. He was the 'Russia and all about it' expert then. I also remember
reading his iterview with BB. Klebnikov had business with oligarchs since mid-90s, could hardly beleive that he is not smart enough to survive since then. And by the way, BB sued Forbes , don't remember what for.

Anyway,today's Russia remindes more of pre-Stalinist period. Shutting it all down, slowly but steadily.I hadn't been in Moscow for 13 years since I left and not attracted to visit at all.I'd rather go to India to enjoy the contrasts.

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