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Пишет Journal de Chaource (![[info]](http://lj.rossia.org/img/syndicated.gif){kind=small} lj_chaource)@ 2018-07-30 20:14:00 |
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The art of non-argument
An interesting video by Jordan B. Peterson, - "The art of argument"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXaQLT8V
At some point he says - the issues such as abortion or gun control are important issues that have been around for a while because there are a lot of good and hard arguments from both sides of the isle.
Which immediately reminded me of my first awareness of these issues, back in the 1990s as I just arrived to the U.S.
Back then, I was actually a bit confused and bemused that these issues are even discussed in a developed, first-world country! To me, everything was crystal clear: guns need to be banned, and abortion needs to be legal and unstigmatized. The existing American traditions (their pro-life stance, their readiness to sue the government in court, and especially the 2nd Amendment - the "right for a militia to bear arms" - unthinkable!) - appeared strange and even somewhat retarded to me. People who were in favor of gun rights were clearly just violent fanatics who want to feel the adrenaline while shooting randomly into the sky. The people opposing abortion were clearly nothing more than a bunch of ultra-religious nuts. I saw a couple of these people, the anti-abortion activists; they chanted ridiculous things like "step off the throne, let Jesus be the king". They were clearly "on the wrong side of history".
Now, it is not my point here to actually discuss gun rights or abortion rights; instead, I want to point out that most immigrants arriving to the U.S. will not see gun rights or abortion rights as an important issue at all. To them, these issues are already solved long ago, and the countries of their origin have long ago adopted clear policies towards abortions and guns. And these policies are everywhere the same: prohibit guns for private citizens, and allow abortions.
Let us look at some of the likely countries of origin for immigrants to the U.S.
Western Europe: abortion is legal and unstigmatized, guns are prohibited. Russia: the same. China, India? The same. Great Britain: the same; and even knives are prohibited now in the U.K. In all these countries, there are no recurring arguments about the gun rights or abortion rights, and no political party is running on such debates. These questions are long settled, they are non-issues.
Quite similarly, immigrants from all the named countries will have an entrenched positive-deferential attitudes towards a large and powerful government. The default position in all those countries is that the government is always right simply because it is too powerful. It is unthinkable (and futile!) to sue the government (which is something Americans do a lot). And whenever the society discovers a social problem XYZ, the correct response is to petition the government about creating an "Agency for the Prevention of XYZ and Development of non-XYZ", or to pass a law "Against XYZ". It is the default position of most people coming from those countries that the government is the only entity capable of solving a social problem of any kind, and that the solution is to pass a decree or law mandating that XYZ be banned or that non-XYZ be financially stimulated.
All those countries have either very small or non-existing amounts of private litigation against government, and an extensive set of government regulations penetrating all aspects of citizens' lives. I know firsthand that in Germany, for example, the law mandates when grocery stores may open and close - on which days of the week, and at which times. Gas stations often sell groceries, and some have been sued for opening too late or on Sundays. Germans think that all this is perfectly reasonable; I heard an argument that it is good to keep Sundays as days of rest, and if not for that law, people would be driven to work far too much, which would distort the work-life balance.
To summarize - people coming to the U.S. from pretty much any other country in the world are likely to believe that 1) guns don't belong in private hands, 2) abortions must be allowed with few restrictions, and 3) a big, all-powerful government and its constantly multiplying laws and intrusive regulations is the only way of life and the only method of solving all social problems.
American traditions - private gun ownership, strict limitations on abortion, and small government - are doomed unless immigration is reduced to a very small number of people. Merit-based immigration, professional aptitude, education criteria, or even IQ tests for prospective immigrants will not help to solve this problem.
An interesting video by Jordan B. Peterson, - "The art of argument"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXaQLT8V
At some point he says - the issues such as abortion or gun control are important issues that have been around for a while because there are a lot of good and hard arguments from both sides of the isle.
Which immediately reminded me of my first awareness of these issues, back in the 1990s as I just arrived to the U.S.
Back then, I was actually a bit confused and bemused that these issues are even discussed in a developed, first-world country! To me, everything was crystal clear: guns need to be banned, and abortion needs to be legal and unstigmatized. The existing American traditions (their pro-life stance, their readiness to sue the government in court, and especially the 2nd Amendment - the "right for a militia to bear arms" - unthinkable!) - appeared strange and even somewhat retarded to me. People who were in favor of gun rights were clearly just violent fanatics who want to feel the adrenaline while shooting randomly into the sky. The people opposing abortion were clearly nothing more than a bunch of ultra-religious nuts. I saw a couple of these people, the anti-abortion activists; they chanted ridiculous things like "step off the throne, let Jesus be the king". They were clearly "on the wrong side of history".
Now, it is not my point here to actually discuss gun rights or abortion rights; instead, I want to point out that most immigrants arriving to the U.S. will not see gun rights or abortion rights as an important issue at all. To them, these issues are already solved long ago, and the countries of their origin have long ago adopted clear policies towards abortions and guns. And these policies are everywhere the same: prohibit guns for private citizens, and allow abortions.
Let us look at some of the likely countries of origin for immigrants to the U.S.
Western Europe: abortion is legal and unstigmatized, guns are prohibited. Russia: the same. China, India? The same. Great Britain: the same; and even knives are prohibited now in the U.K. In all these countries, there are no recurring arguments about the gun rights or abortion rights, and no political party is running on such debates. These questions are long settled, they are non-issues.
Quite similarly, immigrants from all the named countries will have an entrenched positive-deferential attitudes towards a large and powerful government. The default position in all those countries is that the government is always right simply because it is too powerful. It is unthinkable (and futile!) to sue the government (which is something Americans do a lot). And whenever the society discovers a social problem XYZ, the correct response is to petition the government about creating an "Agency for the Prevention of XYZ and Development of non-XYZ", or to pass a law "Against XYZ". It is the default position of most people coming from those countries that the government is the only entity capable of solving a social problem of any kind, and that the solution is to pass a decree or law mandating that XYZ be banned or that non-XYZ be financially stimulated.
All those countries have either very small or non-existing amounts of private litigation against government, and an extensive set of government regulations penetrating all aspects of citizens' lives. I know firsthand that in Germany, for example, the law mandates when grocery stores may open and close - on which days of the week, and at which times. Gas stations often sell groceries, and some have been sued for opening too late or on Sundays. Germans think that all this is perfectly reasonable; I heard an argument that it is good to keep Sundays as days of rest, and if not for that law, people would be driven to work far too much, which would distort the work-life balance.
To summarize - people coming to the U.S. from pretty much any other country in the world are likely to believe that 1) guns don't belong in private hands, 2) abortions must be allowed with few restrictions, and 3) a big, all-powerful government and its constantly multiplying laws and intrusive regulations is the only way of life and the only method of solving all social problems.
American traditions - private gun ownership, strict limitations on abortion, and small government - are doomed unless immigration is reduced to a very small number of people. Merit-based immigration, professional aptitude, education criteria, or even IQ tests for prospective immigrants will not help to solve this problem.
