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Пишет flaass ([info]flaass)
@ 2008-04-09 15:13:00


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Legend - Бродилка?
Так и не встречал я приличного перевода вот этого стихотворения Одена.

Enter with him
These legends, Love:
"Войди, Любовь, в его бродилку..."

Как мне говорили, слишком сложно для перевода: "уж очень ритм обязывающий, по русски так коротко - трудно."
А у последних слов я до сих пор не понимаю точный смысл:

That, starting back,
His eyes may look
Amazed on you,
Find what he wanted
Is faithful too
But disenchanted,
Your finite love.

Впрочем, выяснилось, что и у Одена с ними были проблемы: среди разных вариантов есть "...His eyes may look Amazed as you...", а любовь вообще непонятно какая:
Your simplest love.
Your finite love.
Your human love.
Love as love.


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[info]kobak@lj
2009-06-16 06:10 (ссылка)
А о каких "ЭТИХ легендах" идёт речь, собственно, как Вы думаете?

(Ответить) (Ветвь дискуссии)


[info]flaass@lj
2009-06-16 07:43 (ссылка)
А не знаю. Всегда воспринимал как обобщенный набор "легендарных" ситуаций. Стимфалийские птицы, разве что.

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[info]kobak@lj
2009-06-16 07:48 (ссылка)
Тогда я не уверен, что правильно понимаю смысл стихотворения. Разве общий смысл не в том, чтобы адресат [наконец] почувствовал любовь? Но при чем тут легенды? Почему Love должна enter with him these legends? Может быть, речь идёт об обобщенных романтических легендах? Не совсем понятно.

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[info]flaass@lj
2009-06-16 08:10 (ссылка)
Адресат - Love. Кто-то, может, и сам автор, кто любит персонажа "he". А этот Хи увлечен легендами (в современных терминах - играет в компьютерную бродилку). Любви предлагается помогать ему в его (игрушечных) бродильных приключениях. Вплоть даже до фатального исхода: авось, Хи хоть тогда что-нибудь поймет.

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[info]kobak@lj
2009-06-16 08:14 (ссылка)
Ах вот в каком смысле "бродилка"! Интересно. Но Оден же не мог иметь в виду никакую компьютерную игру; чем же мог быть увлечен Хи? Просто чтением старинных легенд и мечтами о них? А может, он их сочинял?..

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[info]flaass@lj
2009-06-16 08:20 (ссылка)
И тоже не знаю. Но какое-то юношеское увлечение:
"...His grown desire
Of legend tire, ..."

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[info]_baum@lj
2009-06-19 18:36 (ссылка)
Before 1933 Auden knew he had placed barriers in the way of love, but he trusted in love’s power to overcome them. A free Eros, he hoped, would feel no resentment over its imprisonment, but would free him in turn to love. In Berlin in 1929 he hoped to outgrow the complexities of homosexual desire merely by letting Eros follow its natural course. Two years later he was still waiting for erotic complexity to grow into the “simplest love” that Eros could provide.

He wrote a long apostrophe to Eros, in December 1931, explaining what he had in mind. “Enter with him / These legends, Love,” he began, as he sent Love on a mythical quest as companion to a youthful hero. The quest is a series of “legends,” the adventures of adolescent sexuality, represented by folktale motifs of treacherous landscapes, guardians of the pass, pursuits and escapes. The point of calling these legends is that they are conventional: inherited, like family ghosts, from the past. Models learned from others — and this includes models of revolt — shape the erotic life of all adolescents; their choice is not between originality and convention, but between different kinds of convention. Although the hero of the poem does not know it when he sets out, his goal is to outgrow his own quest — to achieve, in place of conventional legend, authentic love.

The paradox the poem hopes to resolve is this: Only through legend can love begin, since lovers must learn the manner and method that will bring them together; yet if they then wish to share an authentic love the must cast off the past, since it has nothing to do with themselves and intrudes as an unwelcome third party at their private meetings. How are legends to be renounced? The poem predicts that its hero, when his romantic adventures pall, will choose to reject Love altogether. Dissatisfied with legend, unaware that any truer Love is possible, he will demand that Love “Submit your neck / To the ungrateful stroke / Of his reluctant sword.” But in the very moment he destroys Love, he will be startled to find that he has summoned into being its true avatar. What appears in place of legend is “faithful… But disenchanted.” It is “Your [Love’s] simplest love.”

But the poem demonstrates exactly the opposite of what Auden was trying to say. He looks forward to a moment when legend will change into truth, yet the lines describing the change are the most legendary in the poem — a folklore transformation of a beheaded phantom into something real, excellent, and whole. The poem tries to escape fiction through fiction, and this self-contradictory effort results directly from Auden’s wish for a simple love, unmediated by fictions from the past. Such a love is itself a romantic fiction, created by two lovers as a standard for themselves and each other, a dream of freedom from society and their earlier lives. Although this fantasy — we two alone though the whole world oppose — has animated much of Western literature and art for seven centuries, the truth remains that all love is learned, whether it takes the form of bourgeois marriage or romantic passion. Love’s conventions change over the centuries, but love never escapes them. In the 1930s Auden tried to resist this truth, first by isolating love in simple moments of satisfaction, then by hoping to grow from learned to unlearned love. But by 1940 he gave a love poem a title from the traditional marriage service, “In Sickness and in Health,” and adapted much of its structure from the traditional litany; and in the final line of this poem, in a late revised version, he asked love to “hold us to the ordinary way.”

Mendelson, Early Auden, pp. 216-218.

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