мда. вот так вот приходишь к практике воздержания.
блин. странные мысли у меня порой бывают после прочтения вас.-)

чем больше мы будем тебя предупреждать, тем больше тебе будет хотеться прыгнуть через...(с)

я прыгаю через...
в длинну
в высоту
чрез голову
перед
в версту
на ходу
я прыгаю утром
читая газеты
в прыжках поедаю вафли - конфеты
я прыгаю рядом
я прыгаю вместе
предупреждали?
лет через двести
допрыгаю до
и окажется после
может пойму
допрыгаю в гости
и вопрошу
прыгая быстро
"остановиться?"
подпрыгну
зависну
я в ожидание ответа от вас

Спасибо за стихи.

;-)

Большое спасибо за интерес, но практика воздержания?!

Я, к сожалению, не нахожу лесбийских изображений периода...

мне хватает ужасов запрета геевских сюжетов

;-(

Usual medieval humour. If every scatological joke would be interpreted as sodomy, there will be little else left of the whole period.

да, здесь я соглашусь. а то и Рабле так трактовать станем
хотя как знать

Мне кажется, что в случае Босха оснований для рассуждений о содомии больше, т.к. это один из грехов, служасших фоном для добордетели святого. С диптихом мне это и самому не слишком понятно.

The only subtlety that I see in the second painting that might elevate it above the mere humorous painting is thistle. However, I do not think that it has the symbolism that you suggest. It is probably placed simply to hide scrotum. That's mediaeval: showing anus is funny (though improper) whereas showing or looking at the genitals is sinful. The inflorations of thistle crudely allude to the testes that one would see without the plants. There might also be wordplay involved; I definitely sense it in English (thistles - testes). Compare with O.H.G. Distil or Ger. Distel. I've seen this association before: if you cut a milk thistle, the stem gives white sap (thistle milk) -- it is still used as a medicine. e.g. http://www.uspharmacist.com/oldformat.asp?url=newlook/files/Alte/ACF3007.cfm&pub_id=8&article_id=137
In the Middle Ages people had strange ideas that this sap is somehow related to sperm and it was used as a tonic, infertility treatment in men and what not. In short, thistle is genitals, on several association levels.

As for showing ass & sodomy, consider this Durer (illustration to Brant's Stiltifera Navis, "Ship of Fools")
http://info.lib.uh.edu/sca/digital/ship/pages.html?ID=49
Now we are talking serious business.

Большое спасибо за прелюбопытную информацию. К сожалению, я пока не могу найти подтверждения предложенной Вами связи репейника с пенисом, хотя и созвучие названий, и наличие сока - семени представляются весьма любопытными.

Что касается Дюрера, то, конечно, здесь присутствует множество обуждавшихся символов, как то фаллический кинжал. Камилль, следуя Фрейду (?), связывает изображение дефекации с деньгами, что вполне объяснимо в гравюре, озаглавленной "Брак по рассчёту"...

The strange thing about Durer's engraving is that somehow this interpretation has never been suggested before, although it cries out loud. I also feel that everything there converges onto one thing, and yet ...

I'll find the thistle ref. for you, but it may take time. I've seen it in some book on heraldry, among 20+ explanations as to why the thistle is the symbol of Scotland (nobody actually knows).

Дюрера надо проверять литературу, я могу попробовать, но не знаю, преуспею ли в этом.

Заранее благодарен по поводу репейника.

OK, I've checked it up (the thistles) and here is the problem: the thistle on your painting does not correspond to any specific variety of European thistle. It is certainly not a wild thistle of genus Cirsum (they do not have leaves that wide), so the probable choice is one of the few varieties that were popular in the Renaissance gardens: sowthistle, blessed (holy) thistle, and milk (Maryan) thistle. The inflorations more closely correspond to blessed thistle whereas the leaves more closely correspond to milk thistle (Silybrum) or, possibly, Cirsium oleraceum. Both sowthistle and milk thistle give milk sap and were used to maintain virility from the time immemorial. I have difficulty locating the exact contemporary source, but Federick Muller, London. S. Haughton, C. S. (1978. Green Immigrants. Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, New York) reports that

...A 13th-century herbalist highly recommended a diet of sowthistles "to prolong the virility of gentlemen"
If you Google "milk thistle" with "virility" or "impotence" you'll get thousands of hits: silybrum is a common herbal tonic (liver antiinflamation agent) and it has been the staple of impotence medicine for 2000 years since Pliny (impotence being common side effect of chronic alcoholism). Medieval men were half-drunk most of the time since water was [quite rightly] deemed unsafe (being heavily polluted with sewage, etc.), and combating impotence and cirrosis of liver was a very common medical problem. The scale of alcohol consumption was absolutely mindboggling by our standards: check this one, for example: http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/centrefooddrink/articles/howmuchdrink.html
Extreme temperance called for drinking no more than 1 L of wine a day; typical monastic standard was a gallon of beer per day. Two pints a day was considered asketic.

On the other hand, blessed thistle had completely different uses, mainly as emetic and galactogogue. It was widely used against Black Death too, with no success. So the allusion to virility boils down to what thistle is depicted, and the painter was so focussed on the bottom that he bungled the botany completely. Figure out now what was on his mind...

More detailed information on the use of thistle is here: http://www.viable-herbal.com/herbdesc4/1thistle.htm

Спасибо за информацию. Я попросил в ru_plants@lj опознать наш репейник. Надеюсь его положение и тема записи их не слишком шокируют.

можно картинку с чертополохом себе украсть на юзерпикч?

Да, конечно. Не думаю, что на нее распространяется закон об авторском праве.