tiphareth: СМЕРТЬ ЛЖЕЦАМ!

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tiphareth
2020-01-17 14:09 (ссылка)

https://www.amnestyusa.org/files/norway_report_-_sex_workers_rights_-_embargoed_-_final.pdf

"Last year was really hell for me." That's how Mercy, a Nigerian sex worker, described her experiences of
discrimination, social exclusion and human rights abuses in Norway. Her story culminated in her being
forcibly evicted from her home in 2014. The fact that Mercy was made homeless, without any due process
or notice, constitutes a human rights violation under international law. That the forced eviction occurred as a
direct result of Mercy reporting a rape and violent robbery that she was a victim of, makes the treatment she
received as a sex worker in Norway even more egregious. She told Amnesty International:

"A little guy came to the house with a knife. I answered the
door. There were nine of us in the house. He threatened us
with a knife and robbed our money and phones... He forced
us to have sex with him. The police took two or three hours to
come. They took us all to hospital and got us a hotel for two
nights. Later, we went back to the house and, two days later,
the landlord threw us out... The police put pressure on the
landlord. She gave us half a day to get out... I had to wander
around Oslo for hours with my bags until I found somewhere
to stay"

This case does not appear to be an isolated incident. Amnesty International learned of another violent
robbery carried out against three women selling sex around the same time in March 2014 who were rapidly
deported from the country after they reported the incident to the police. Amnesty International interviewed a
lawyer who represented the women. She told interviewers:

I worked on the case of three Nigerian women who were attacked and robbed. Police came to the scene but the
perpetrators were gone. The police took the women to a shelter and gathered their belongings. The women gave
their statements. When they went to collect their belongings, they were arrested and deported. They hadn't
overstayed [their visas]. They should have told the police, they were tourists."172

According to media reports of this case, perpetrators broke into the apartment on the outskirts of Oslo
carrying an electric stun gun and knives.173 They subjected the women to extreme violence - stabbing them
and threatening to kill them. Their lawyer described how the police had failed to follow up the women's case
and had instead prioritized their removal from Norway under immigration rules:

"The women thought they would get help from police. They were promised that they would get their passports
back as soon as they had given statements about the robbery and cooperated with police. Instead they were
imprisoned, put in Trandum transit centre and sent on a plane out of Norway. I was one of those who told them
that they could trust the police in Norway, but apparently they couldn't.174"
The women's lawyer also expressed concern that the women were removed from the country before they
had finished treatment for the injuries they sustained in the attack, including a severe head injury. When
questioned by the media as to why the women had been deported when they had Italian residency and were
allowed to travel to Norway, the policy attorney for Romerike Police stated that the police had used their
discretion to facilitate the removal of the women because they "did not find that the purpose that they gave
for their stay was likely."175

As detailed in the following sections on violence against sex workers, and anti-trafficking approaches, such
actions by the police have a chilling effect on the levels of confidence that people who sell sex have in the
police and in particular their willingness to report crimes against them, including extreme violence,
exploitation and trafficking.

States have an obligation to ensure that people are treated equally under the law. Article 7 of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights, for example, states: "All persons are equal before the law and are entitled
without discrimination to the equal protection of the law."176

* * *

В общем, раньше проституток просто сажали,
теперь их дополнительно пиздят, насилуют, сажают
и высылают из страны.

>Но мы не о проституции, а о БДСМ.

"The depiction of illegal sexual activities, such as those involving children, animals, necrophilia, rape, violence or the use of force, remains illegal."

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	tyumen_kender 2020-01-17 14:23 (ссылка)
	>>Но мы не о проституции, а о БДСМ. > "The depiction of illegal sexual activities, such as those involving children, animals, necrophilia, rape, violence or the use of force, remains illegal." Это "ссылка на закон" такая? (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tiphareth 2020-01-17 14:27 (ссылка)
	на википедию https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_in_Europe#Norway (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tyumen_kender
2020-01-17 14:34 (ссылка)

На это утверждение в Википедии даны три "подтверждающих" ссылки, из которых две не работают, а по третьей нет ни слова про детей, животных, БДСМ и прочее.

Но в любом случае, БДСМ-практики в Норвегии совершенно точно не являются "illegal sexual activities" (об этом смешно даже говорить), поэтому их depiction не является нелегальным, даже если верить этому утверждению.

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tiphareth
2020-01-17 14:51 (ссылка)

>поэтому их depiction не является нелегальным

Это еще отчего?
В Англии БДСМ-практики легализованы, БДСМ-порн нелегален.
Во Франции секс с девочками старше 16 легален, съемки
младше 18 нелегальны.

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	tyumen_kender 2020-01-17 15:04 (ссылка)
	Из логического прочтения приведённой фразы. Впрочем, фраза взята непонятно откуда, ссылки на норвежские законы отсутствуют, поэтому и обсуждать её большого смысла нет. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tiphareth 2020-01-17 15:08 (ссылка)
	у акабов другая логика вот такая: порн, изображающий насилие, нелегален, раз, бдсм это насилие, два (даже если по консенту, консент там не изображен ведь) (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tyumen_kender 2020-01-17 15:27 (ссылка)
	Вполне вероятно. А примеры таких случаев в Норвегии есть? (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2020-01-17 15:34 (ссылка)

а я не знаю
но что есть целое движение
"Joint Action against Pornography and Prostitution",
добившееся запрета порнографии в 1985-м году и
проституции в 2009-м это какбе исторический факт
(в 2005-м порнографию частично легализовали)

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tyumen_kender
2020-01-17 16:03 (ссылка)

ОК, фиксируем, что примеров преследования за БДСМ-порн в Норвегии нет. Есть только обратный пример полного оправдания за конвенциональный порн.
А движений всяких много разных, но к действующим законам это имеет мало отношения.

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tiphareth
2020-01-17 15:11 (ссылка)

вот тут в комментах рассказывают, как это работает

You can easily add Norway to the list. Norway does not have many laws against internet content, but they have a few with such a wide possibility of interpretation that nearly anything that can offend any type of authorities, can be and is rutinously deleted. Especially critic of health authorities, child protective agencies and the like is heavily censored.

Also Norway has an absurdely wide definition of child pornography that is actively used to block content regarding children when this content bears some elements of critic against the way the society handles children.

Norway also has a pornography paragraph and an ully paragraph about decent content that can be used to block or delete any content with nudity which is actively used when authorities for some reason do not like the content.

The censordhip is excerted through a silent agreement between the great media and the authorities.

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	tyumen_kender 2020-01-17 15:26 (ссылка)
	"Тут" - это где? (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tiphareth 2020-01-17 15:31 (ссылка)
	oj, pardon, vypala ssykla https://www.le-vpn.com/top-10-censors-internet-avoid-internet-censorship/ (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tyumen_kender
2020-01-17 16:06 (ссылка)

Анонимус в комментах под статьей другого анонимуса рассказывает о жуткой норвежской цензуре в интернете, не приводя ни одного конкретного примера или подтверждающей ссылки. Ну ок. А ещё детей в костюм Путина одевают и насилуют, ага.

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tiphareth
2020-01-17 15:21 (ссылка)

вот тут подробно про всю историю, очень рекомендую
https://www.pol.gu.se/digitalAssets/1316/1316607_gbk-jksch-norway-prostitution-policy.pdf
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1016/S0968-8080(09)34467-5

Networking with organisations and linking up with networks
internationally, has been important throughout our
history. By linking up with other feminist organisations,
we have been able to tap in to a large well of knowledge,
political analyses, strategies and
experiences. International relations have made it easier
for us to situate the Norwegian situation and our
experiences in the international struggle against
pornography and prostitution, e.g. the effect of liberal
economic policies, financial crisis, and international sex
industry on women and girls. It has been crucial for us to
bear in mind that the porn models and the women in
prostitution are women like us, but often living under
circumstances most women in Norway only know in
theory. They are our sisters and not our enemy. Our fight
is not against them, but against the perpetrators of these
crimes.

The list of important actors in Norway during the 30 years
of continuous work against pornography and prostitution is
long. We have built alliances with as many individuals and
organisations as possible through discussions, actions,
meetings, conferences and campaigns. The important actors
are the women’s movement, feminists in academia, the
female dominated trade unions, the labour unions, women in
the political parties, and women in other countries. The
strength we built made it possible for us to lobby the
political parties in power. During the last important
years we joined forces with the police.

In 1977, thirty women’s organisations in Norway took the
political position that pornography presents women and
women’s sexuality as commodities that can be bought and
sold on the market by men to men. The organisations formed
a network: Joint Action against Pornography1. Our slogan
was: 'A Woman’s Body is not for Sale.'

The study on street prostitution from 1986 by Liv Finstad2
and Cecilie Høigård3 provided us with important knowledge;
we saw that pornography and prostitution was the backbone
of the industry. Later the network changed its name to
Joint Action against Pornography and Prostitution4. [i]

We succeeded in mobilizing ordinary women and men, through
many and long campaigns, actions and discussions. A slide
show was made showing what pornography and prostitution is
about and activists toured the country showing it to the
public. We were invited to speak to students in high
schools, to labour unions, farmers’ unions; and the slide
show was finally shown on national TV. We met with
organised and non-organised women all over the country,
and we had discussions with young conscripted men in the
army camps1. Finally, in 1985, the struggle against
pornography ended up in Parliament when a new law against
pornography was sanctioned. We were not satisfied with the
wording of the law, but saw it as a victory after many
years of struggle.2

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	tyumen_kender 2020-01-17 15:27 (ссылка)
	Это всё очень хорошо, но про запрет БДСМ-порна по этим ссылкам ничего нет. (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

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