tiphareth: СМЕРТЬ ЛЖЕЦАМ!

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kaledin
2020-01-17 22:56 (ссылка)

>The depiction of illegal sexual activities

Что по-видимому включает в себя изнасилование, но не включает бдсм.

Я-то что, впрочем -- но вот

tyumen_kender нам с места событий сообщает; с чего бы ему не верить?

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tiphareth
2020-01-17 23:14 (ссылка)

> Что по-видимому включает в себя изнасилование, но не
> включает бдсм.

насчет Норвегии я не знаю, но англичане
(с аналогичной формулировкой) запретили весь
порн, включающий в себя насилие, в том числе
весь бсдм-порн

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	kaledin 2020-01-17 23:38 (ссылка)
	>насчет Норвегии я не знаю Во-во. Что до англичан, и тем более канадцев, это отдельная тема совершенно. Я согласен, что и те, и другие по поводу порна довольно ебанутые. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2020-01-17 23:53 (ссылка)

слушай, но ненависть к проституткам и к порно это
примерно одно и то же в 99% случаев

странно было бы, если б они боролись с проститутками
и не боролись с порно, тем более, что в Норвегии есть
централизованная организация для борьбы с проституцией
и порно

я, конечно, экстраполирую, ибо
без знания языка трудно, но все-таки

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kaledin
2020-01-18 00:58 (ссылка)

>ненависть к проституткам и к порно это примерно одно и то же в 99% случаев

Бред сивой кобылы.

Почему собственно?

Про ненависть к проституткам я тебе обьяснил, например. Причем здесь порно?

Ты уже совсем как Балалайкин стал, все подгоняешь под схему. Все бы ничего, но схема давно навязла в зубах, и никакой конкретной реальноси не соответствует (кроме совсем скучной, типа этой идиотской картинки про насильника, которую ты уже раз 30 процитировал).

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tiphareth
2020-01-17 23:20 (ссылка)

>нам с места событий сообщает

ну, слушай, я тебе с места событий найду десяток
мест в Москве, где можно закупиться хентаем

но это не мешает акабам и феминисткам сажать людей за хентай

думаю, что и в Британии все запрещенную
там порнуху можно накопать без особого труда

когда я был в Канаде первый раз, порн там был
все еще жестко запрещен, по той же схеме, что в Норвегии,
но гораздо строже, то есть с постоянными обысками
и конфискациями, про которые постоянно писали
канадские правозащитники, почти ежемесячно

представляешь себе, как я охуел, увидев совершенно
открыто продаваемый американский хардкор-порн
по 3 канадских доллара за видеокассету, причем
самого наижесточайшего и помойного сорта

мораль: чем гнуснее феминистки написали закон, тем
подлее и выборочнее его применяют акабы

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	kaledin 2020-01-18 00:59 (ссылка)
	>чем гнуснее феминистки написали закон К норвежским законам про порн феминистки не имеют ровно никакого отношения. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2020-01-18 01:58 (ссылка)

блядь, только они и имеют
я же тебе кидал pdf-файл с историей вопроса
(он хуево цитируется, копипейст кривой, ты
скачай его сам и посмотри)

https://www.pol.gu.se/digitalAssets/1316/1316607_gbk-jksch-norway-prostitution-policy.pdf
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1016/S0968-8080(09)34467-5

Networking with organisations and linking up with networks
internationally, has been important throughout our
history. By linking up with other feminist organisations,
we have been able to tap in to a large well of knowledge,
political analyses, strategies and
experiences. International relations have made it easier
for us to situate the Norwegian situation and our
experiences in the international struggle against
pornography and prostitution, e.g. the effect of liberal
economic policies, financial crisis, and international sex
industry on women and girls. It has been crucial for us to
bear in mind that the porn models and the women in
prostitution are women like us, but often living under
circumstances most women in Norway only know in
theory. They are our sisters and not our enemy. Our fight
is not against them, but against the perpetrators of these
crimes.

The list of important actors in Norway during the 30 years
of continuous work against pornography and prostitution is
long. We have built alliances with as many individuals and
organisations as possible through discussions, actions,
meetings, conferences and campaigns. The important actors
are the women’s movement, feminists in academia, the
female dominated trade unions, the labour unions, women in
the political parties, and women in other countries. The
strength we built made it possible for us to lobby the
political parties in power. During the last important
years we joined forces with the police.

In 1977, thirty women’s organisations in Norway took the
political position that pornography presents women and
women’s sexuality as commodities that can be bought and
sold on the market by men to men. The organisations formed
a network: Joint Action against Pornography1. Our slogan
was: 'A Woman’s Body is not for Sale.'

The study on street prostitution from 1986 by Liv Finstad2
and Cecilie Høigård3 provided us with important knowledge;
we saw that pornography and prostitution was the backbone
of the industry. Later the network changed its name to
Joint Action against Pornography and Prostitution4. [i]

We succeeded in mobilizing ordinary women and men, through
many and long campaigns, actions and discussions. A slide
show was made showing what pornography and prostitution is
about and activists toured the country showing it to the
public. We were invited to speak to students in high
schools, to labour unions, farmers’ unions; and the slide
show was finally shown on national TV. We met with
organised and non-organised women all over the country,
and we had discussions with young conscripted men in the
army camps1. Finally, in 1985, the struggle against
pornography ended up in Parliament when a new law against
pornography was sanctioned. We were not satisfied with the
wording of the law, but saw it as a victory after many
years of struggle.2

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	kaledin 2020-01-18 14:43 (ссылка)
	Ок, но это были какие-то предпредыдущие феминистки 40 лет назад. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2020-01-18 14:48 (ссылка)

да нет, все те же самые
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1016/S0968-8080(09)34467-5
A glimpse into 30 years of struggle against prostitution
by the women's liberation movement in Norway

The Women's Front is an independent women's organisation
in Norway, founded in 1972. It is a radical feminist
organization, working against all forms of oppression
experienced by women and girls in a society dominated by
men: economical, social, political, legal and cultural
oppression. The organization has been active in the
struggle against prostitution for 30 years. When a new law
criminalizing the buyer of a sexual act came into effect
on 1 January 2009, an important goal was reached. This
paper describes our struggle to make it happen.

The list of important actors in Norway during our 30 years
of continuous work against pornography and prostitution is
long. We have built alliances with as many individuals and
organizations as possible through discussions, actions,
meetings, conferences and campaigns. The important actors
are the women's movement, feminists in academia,
female-dominated and other trade unions, women in the
political parties, and women in other countries. The
strength we built made it possible for us to lobby the
political parties in power. During the last important
years we joined forces with the police.

In the early 1970s, the Women's Front worked primarily for
women's economic independence. The struggle for women's
right to legal, safe and free abortion* brought up the
issues around women's bodies and sexuality. Pornography
was abruptly put on our agenda in 1977 when two women were
fired from their jobs as ticket collectors on the local
trains in Oslo after tearing down posters advertising
pornographic magazines.†

Many women's organizations rallied to their support. The
two women got their jobs back, and we started to study
pornography – what was the message about women and men in
pornography, who bought the films and magazines, who
produced them, what was the situation of the women who
posed and acted?

Pornography was not an important political issue in Norway
at the time, but Christian puritans and liberals dominated
what public debate there was. The puritans said
pornography was offensive and contrary to Christian sexual
morals, while the liberals claimed pornography was
liberating for everybody, especially for women.

Both sides discussed pornography as if it were about being
naked or about sexual “variations” and freedom. They never
paid attention to the women in pornography, the abuse and
violence they suffered or what kind of relations between
men and women are propagated through pornographic
material. No one mentioned those who profited from the
production of pornographic material either. We wanted to
find out where all the magazines and films came from, who
was behind them, who the customers were, and what
pornography was about when seen through radical women's
eyes?

In 1977, 30 women's organizations in Norway took the
political position that pornography presents women and
women's sexuality as commodities that can be bought and
sold on the market by men to men. The organizations formed
a network called Joint Action against Pornography.* Our
slogan was: “A woman's body is not for sale”.

The study on street prostitution from 1986 by Liv Finstad†
and Cecilie Høigård** provided us with important
knowledge; we saw that pornography and prostitution were
the backbone of the sex industry. Later the network
changed its name to Joint Action against Pornography and
Prostitution.2 ††

Our experience has been that it is possible for feminists
to work with women of many different political views as
long as you have a common goal and have agreed upon a
feminist platform – with an understanding that we do not
necessarily agree on all other matters, e.g. such as on
abortion.

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	kaledin 2020-01-18 15:23 (ссылка)
	Да, но закон-то отменили, 15 лет назад. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tiphareth 2020-01-18 16:52 (ссылка)
	не отменили, просто ограничили сферу применимости (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

	tiphareth 2020-01-18 16:53 (ссылка)
	феминистки обнаружили, что Интернет этим делом все равно забит нафиг, и решили, что лучше пока бороться с проституцией, временно отложив борьбу с порно (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

tiphareth
2020-01-18 02:00 (ссылка)

https://www.pol.gu.se/digitalAssets/1316/1316607_gbk-jksch-norway-prostitution-policy.pdf

In Norway, criminalising the purchase of sexual services has been on the agenda for decades. From
the late 1970s and a decade onwards, the Joint Action Against Pornography and Prostitution
gathered a broad, heterogeneous coalition against pornography and prostitution. Initiated by the
:RPHQ¶V/HDJXHRIWKH&HQWUH3DUW\63WKH-RLQW$FWLRQLQFOXGHGVHHPLQJO\strange bedfellows:
radical IHPLQLVWJURXSVVXFKDVWKH:RPHQ¶V)URQWIDUOHIWSDUWLHVVXFKDVWKH0DRLVW:RUNHU¶V
Communist Party (AKP), Christian Democrats and church parishes, trade unions and the
Norwegian HousewiveV¶Union. At its peak, it gathered some 30±40 organisations claiming a total
membership of ca 500,000 people and local groups across the country. Eventually dominated by
the :RPHQ¶V)URQWWKH-RLQW$FWLRQFRPELQHGDZDUHQHVV-raising campaigns and political lobbying
with militant, direct action directed against porn shops and assumed clients of prostitutes.16

In response to such activist demands in the 1980s, criminalising the purchase of sexual services
was considered twice by the Department of Justice, in 1982-83 and again in 1986-87, the latter
occasion including a broad consultative hearing.17 But whereas legislators in the mid-1980s heeded
WKH-RLQW$FWLRQ¶VGHPDQGVIRUVKDUSHQLQJWKHanti-pornography laws, criminalising the purchase of
sexual services never gained the necessary political support. The Joint Action disbanded due to
internal tensions in the early 1990s, but both pornography and prostitution continued to stir
political controversy in Norway.18

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