tiphareth: "Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ты следующая"

(Читать комментарии) - (Добавить комментарий)

kaledin
2018-10-15 18:24 (ссылка)

>занятое раздачей саудовских денег полезным идиотам

А откуда известно, что саудовских?

По ссылке какая-то хуйня без единого конкретного факта, причем устарелая как говно мамонта.

Я к тому, что -- ну, может и пофигу, но -- там концепция сильно поменялась. CAIR дружит с хамасом и муслимским братством. Муслимское братство поддерживает Катар/Аль-Джазира, а саудовцы наоборот страшно гнобят (например в Египте). Конкретно CAIR попал в список террористических организаций правительства ОАЭ.

(Ответить) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2018-10-15 19:51 (ссылка)

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/subversion-from-within-saudi-funding-of-islamic-extremist-groups-in-the-uni
Subversion from Within: Saudi Funding of Islamic
Extremist Groups in the United States

Other cases are far more subtle, particularly the activities of a host of purportedly political or social-activist groups operating in the United States. For example, Omar Ahmed, cofounder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) -- an organization that has received significant funding from Saudi Arabia -- also helped found the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) in cooperation with Mousa Abu Marzouk, a Hamas leader and Specially Designated Terrorist. IAP, a Hamas front organization, was the first to publish the Hamas charter in English. Given this background, CAIR's pro-Hamas and pro-Hizballah positions should come as no surprise; the group regularly rises to the defense of terrorist suspects and openly supports terrorist groups. For example, in 1994, CAIR leader Nihad Awad, a former IAP employee, stated, "I am in support of the Hamas movement." More recently, CAIR employee Randall "Ismail" Royer was indicted for his role in a northern Virginia jihad network that had trained in Pakistani terrorist camps affiliated with Lashkar-e-Taiba in the hopes of fighting Indian forces in Kashmir. Two other CAIR officials have been arrested since September 11, 2001. On December 18, 2002, Ghassan Elashi, founding board member of CAIR's Texas branch, was arrested by federal authorities on a number of charges, including conspiracy, money laundering, trafficking in illegal exports, making false statements on export declarations, and dealing in the property of a designated terrorist. Elashi also served as chairman of the Holy Land Foundation (a Hamas front group shut down by federal authorities in December 2001) and vice president of Infocom (whose offices were raided by U.S. investigators one week before the September 11 attacks). In January 2003, Bassem Khafagi, who served as CAIR's community affairs director, was arrested in New York for his alleged role in the Islamic Assembly of North America, a Saudi-funded group currently under investigation for recruiting terrorists and "instigating acts of violence and terrorism."

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

kaledin
2018-10-15 21:24 (ссылка)

Да-да -- вот именно по этой ссылке устарелое говно мамонта, ангажированное по самое не могу, которое к тому же никак не подтверждает твой тезис (там сказано про "финансирование из саудовской аравии", без какой-либо конкретики вообще).

(Ответить) (Уровень выше)

tiphareth
2018-10-15 20:24 (ссылка)

вот тут очень подробно
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/council-on-american-islamic-relations-cair/

In 1994, a year before the United States labeled the Palestinian extremist group Hamas a Foreign Terrorist Organization,[3] two individuals who were at the time working for a Hamas offshoot organization (the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP)) founded CAIR[4] to support Hamas’ agenda in the United States. The IAP was also a known front for the Muslim Brotherhood.[5]

Over the years, CAIR’s alleged ties to Hamas have proved troublesome for the organization. In 2007, federal prosecutors reportedly designated CAIR a co-conspirator with the Holy Land Foundation, a group that was eventually convicted for financing terrorism.[6] In 2014, CAIR was designated a terrorist organization by the United Arab Emirates[7] and multiple CAIR members have been arrested on charges related to terrorism.[8]

CAIR is an opponent of American anti-terrorism policies like the PATRIOT Act, citing civil liberties concerns. [9] CAIR’s leaders are extremely anti-Israel,[10] claiming that terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah are liberation movements. [11]

CAIR claims to be partners with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), NAACP, and Amnesty International;[12] rallied against President Trump’s decision to end the DACA immigration policy; and participated in the 2017 Women’s March.[13]
Alleged Association with the Muslim Brotherhood

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) grew out of the Islamic Association for Palestine, a group that was created by the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.[14] The Muslim Brotherhood also identified the Islamic Association for Palestine as one of its United States fronts.[15]

In 1993, the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood’s Palestine Committee organized a secret meeting in Philadelphia that was surveilled by the FBI.[16] At the meeting, two Islamic Association for Palestine officials (Nihad Awad and Omar Ahmad) discussed the need to create a new “neutral” entity for influencing U.S. policy and opinion to support Hamas because “it [was] known who we are.”[17]

A year later, Nihad Awad and Omar Ahmad formed CAIR. [18] Ahmad served as CAIR chairman until 2005, and Nihad Awad remains the executive director of CAIR.[19]
Structure and Funding

Since at least 2013, the CAIR Foundation 501(c)(3) has served as the main vehicle for CAIR’s operations with the Washington Trust Foundation (formerly CAIR, Inc.), functioning mainly as an asset-holding fund to “support the charitable purposes of CAIR Foundation, Inc.”[20]

In 2015, the CAIR Foundation raised $3.3 million and spent a total of approximately $2.7 million.[21]

CAIR has received grants from Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors ($30,000 since 2008) and the Tides Foundation ($5,000 since 2002).[22]

CAIR claims to have 29 offices, 65 spokespeople, and 35 full-time lawyers.[23]
Foreign Contributions

In 2013, it was revealed that from approximately 2007 to 2012, CAIR, Inc., transferred $1.08 million to the CAIR Foundation.[24] CAIR, Inc., had disclosed in 2005 that it received a total of $1.2 million from six contributors in Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E.[25]

Subsequently in 2013, in its petition for nonprofit status reinstatement, the CAIR Foundation acknowledged that that it had received $405,000 from the government of Qatar during the five-year period that it failed to file IRS annual disclosures.[26]
Nonprofit Status Controversy

In 2011, then-U.S. Representative Frank Wolf (R-Virginia) called for an IRS investigation of the organization because it was revealed that it had solicited overseas contributions from then-Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi during the years in which the CAIR Foundation failed to file its annual IRS reports.[32]

Rep. Wolf pointed to a 2009 letter that CAIR Foundation Executive Director Nihad Awad sent to Gaddafi requesting $15 million to support the Muslim Peace Foundation.[33] The Congressman noted that the letter was written with the full knowledge of the regime’s brutal treatment of its opponents and its deplorable human-rights record, as well as its long history of acts of international terrorism.[34]

Congressman Wolf also claimed that he also had information indicating that during the same years, “CAIR representatives may have traveled to Sudan to solicit funds from Sudanese President Omar Hassan Bashir, an internationally indicted war criminal.”[35]
Programs

The CAIR Foundation’s current purpose is to advocate and educate on behalf of Muslims using media relations, government relations, education/advocacy activities, and voter-registration efforts.[36]

In 2015, the CAIR Foundation claimed to have spent $353,000 on communications to spin Islam and Muslims in a positive light, and $101,000 on government relations.[37]

CAIR additionally engages in organized lobbying efforts and responds to legislation and government actions.[38] Despite not filing any lobbying-registration documents,[39] CAIR says that it coordinated 325 meetings with members of Congress or their staffs in 2015 and 2016.[40] (Federal lobbying registration law requires registration once certain thresholds are met; non-registration despite meeting members does not necessarily imply impropriety.)

Additionally, in 2012, the White House acknowledged that President Barack Obama’s deputies held “hundreds” of closed-door meetings with CAIR representatives.[41]

In 2009, five members of Congress and one senator wrote a letter to the IRS and the House and Senate Clerks claiming that CAIR potentially violated both the IRS rules against excessive lobbying by a 501(c)(3) organization and the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 2005 for failing to register as lobbyists.[42]
Political Positions

CAIR positions itself as the principal American Muslim civil-rights and advocacy organization. In recent years, it has focused on responding to anti-Muslim incidents and sentiment around the country.

However, according to the Anti-Defamation League, CAIR’s stated commitment to “justice and mutual understanding” is undermined by its agenda.[43]
Civil Liberties

CAIR actively defended convicted Palestinian Islamic Jihad financier Sami Al-Arian before and after his conviction for financing terrorism. On the day Al-Arian was arrested, CAIR co-founder and then-Chairman Omar Ahmad issued a press release in support of Al-Arian,[54] saying that his arrest was due to “political considerations, not legitimate national security problems.”[55] A CAIR spokesman, echoing a common anti-Israel trope, blamed his arrest on the “pro-Israel lobby.”[56]

In February 2007, CAIR endorsed a call by the American Muslim Taskforce for Civil Rights and Elections for a worldwide “rolling fast” in support of Al-Arian, who had declared a hunger strike.[57] Then, in 2008, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad led a delegation to visit Al-Arian, stating that “[Awad] believes in [Al-Arian’s] just cause and we were there to support him.”[58]

In the hours after the deadly 2015 San Bernardino, California, terrorist attack in which Islamist terrorists had murdered 14 people and wounded 31 others, CAIR “advised” the family of the suspected terrorist and held a press conference featuring the family of the killers.[59] In the days that followed, CAIR offered legal assistance to the family, and CAIR’s Los Angeles chapter appeared in court to help the terrorist’s sister obtain custody of his child.[60] During this time, CAIR’s Los Angeles chapter director, Hussam Ayloush, said the United States was partly responsible for such acts of terror, saying “let’s not forget that some of our own foreign policy as Americans, as the West, have fueled that extremism.”[61]
Legitimizing Terrorism

In 2008, CAIR’s then-National Board Chairman Parvez Ahmed described terror organizations Hamas and Hezbollah as “part of the political processes in their societies, just like the [Irish Republican Army, an Irish nationalist terror group] was part of the political process in their society.”[62]

In 2004, when asked by Al-Jazeera about the U.S. designations of Hamas and Hezbollah as Foreign Terrorist Organizations, Nihad Awad said “we do not and will not condemn any liberation movement inside Palestine or Lebanon.”[63]
Anti-Israel

According to the Anti-Defamation league, “CAIR’s anti-Israel agenda dates back to its founding by leaders of the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), a Hamas affiliated anti-Semitic propaganda organization.”[64]

In 1994, CAIR founder and Executive Director Nihad Awad said, “I am in support of Hamas.”[65] Later that year, he said Hamas was under occupation and thus should be allowed to defend itself.[66]

According to the Middle East Forum, since 2000, CAIR’s “key figures” have given over $700,000 to political candidates, with $635,000 going to Democrats. CAIR officials have been supportive of left-wing Muslims in Congress, providing $138,098 to U.S. Representative Keith Ellison (D-Minnesota) and $38,126 to U.S. Rep. Andre Carson (D-Indiana). The group’s figures have supported institutional Democrats and Democratic Party committees, providing $35,635 to Hillary Clinton, $24,138 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and approximately $37,000 to Barack Obama’s campaign committees.[77]
Ties to Terror
Terror Financing Co-Conspirator

CAIR Executive Director Awad originally denied that CAIR had ever received money from the Holy Land Foundation, declaring, “Our organization did not receive any seed money from HLFRD.” However, it was later revealed that two months after its founding, CAIR took a $5,000 donation from the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development.[78]

In 2008, five leaders of the Holy Land Foundation were convicted of funneling $12 million to Hamas after 1995, when the Clinton administration banned any dealings with the terrorist organization[79] in what has been described as “the largest successful terror financing prosecution in U.S. history.”[80]

During a preceding 2007 trial against the Holy Land Foundation, prosecutors named CAIR as unindicted co-conspirators in the case and introduced evidence that linked CAIR, Inc., to the Holy Land Foundation and the “U.S. Muslim Brotherhood Palestine Committee.”[81]

(Ответить) (Уровень выше)

tiphareth
2018-10-15 20:33 (ссылка)

Кто финансирует Хамас (что CAIR есть просто
другая вывеска для Хамаса, видимо, общеизвестно):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Finances_and_funding
About half of Hamas's funding came from states in the
Persian Gulf down to the mid 2000s. Saudi Arabia supplied
half of the Hamas budget of $50 million in the early
2000s,[118] but, under U.S. pressure, began cut its
funding by cracking down on Islamic charities and private
donor transfers to Hamas in 2004,[114] which by 2006
drastically reduced the flow of money from that area. Iran
and Syria, in the aftermath of Hamas's 2006 electoral
victory, stepped in to fill the shortfall.[119][120] Saudi
funding, negotiated with third parties like Egypt,
remained supportive of Hamas as a Sunni group but chose to
provide more assistance to the PNA, the electoral loser,
when the EU responded to the outcome by suspending its
monetary aid.[121] Iran in the 1980s began by providing
10% of Hamas's funding, which it increased annually until
by the 1990s it supplied $30 million.[118] It accounted
for $22 million, over a quarter of Hamas's budget, by the
late 2000s.[114] According to Matthew Levitt, Iran
preferred direct financing to operative groups rather than
charities, requiring video proof of attacks.[114][122]
Much of the Iran funding is said to be channeled through
Hezbollah.[114] After 2006 Iran's willingness to take over
the burden of the shortfall created by the drying up of
Saudi funding also reflected the geopolitical tensions
between the two, since, though Shiite, Iran was supporting
a Sunni group traditionally closely linked with the Saudi
kingdom.

Суммируя: изначально бабло шло от саудовцев,
теперь оно идет от них же, но по дороге отмывается,
чтобы не приебывались американцы

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

kaledin
2018-10-15 21:28 (ссылка)

Saudi Arabia supplied half of the Hamas budget of $50 million in the early 2000s,[118] but, under U.S. pressure, began cut its funding by cracking down on Islamic charities and private donor transfers to Hamas in 2004,[114] which by 2006 drastically reduced the flow of money from that area.

>теперь оно идет от них же

Any evidence for that? I didn't think so.

Причем это про ХАМАС, CAIR тут ни при чем -- деньги, данные на CAIR, конечно попадают в ХАМАС, а вот наоборот вряд ли.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2018-10-16 16:23 (ссылка)

Балалайкин разъяснил по соседству

На сегодняшний день у них операция идет в два шага.

1) саудиты качают деньги в благотворительные организации стран 1го мира, но возглавляемые саудитскими же клериками (на худой конец египетскими), причем деньги саудитов смешиваются с благотворительностью (фактически налогом) из самих стран 1го мира, - участвуют все мусульмане

- see Islamic Relief

2) Эти организации затем перекачивают все то же бабло
Хамасу и прочим, но уже отмытое до ангельской белизны

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	kaledin 2018-10-16 21:36 (ссылка)
	Балалайкин неебаться эксперт, ага. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	(Анонимно) 2018-10-16 23:10 (ссылка)
	ты, что ли, эксперт? (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

	tiphareth 2018-10-16 23:25 (ссылка)
	да там никаких экспертов не надо вообще погугли просто на Islamic Relief (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

tiphareth
2018-10-16 23:29 (ссылка)

Islamic Relief Worldwide (IRW) is headquartered in the UK where until recently, it’s chairman of the board of trustees was Ibrahim El-Zayat, a leader in both the European and the German Muslim Brotherhood. Sometime in 2016, El-Zayat was replaced as Chairman by South African national Tahir Salie, a former IRW Treasurer while El-Zayat remains as a trustee of the UK branch of Islamic Relief.

In addition to its ties to Erdogan, the IBF is also close to MUSIAD, an Islamist Turkish businessman’s association described in a report authored by the GMBDW editor as also supported by Erdogan, pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel, and with a strong relationship with the Middle East through its Foreign Relations division. The IBF is known to have a close relationship with the Palestinian Business Forum (PBF) that holds its meetings in conjunction with the IBF and is reported by confidential sources to serve as a Hamas support network. The website of the Muslimische Jugend in Deutschland (MJD), the youth arm of the German Muslim Brotherhood, reports additionally that Salie had been expected to meet with the group for four days in 2013.Islamic Relief Worldwide is also listed as a company in the UK where records indicate that Dr. Ahmed Al-Rawi, the former head of the Federation of islamic Organizations in Europe (FIOE) and former of the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB) has been a director at one time. Both FIOE and the MAB are part of the U.K. and European Muslim Brotherhood. Another former member of the board of Islamic Relief Worldwide is Essam El-Haddad, a longtime Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood member a former adviser to Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi. El-Haddad is also known to have been a member of the IBF Board of Governors. A third former member of the Islamic Relief company was Issam El-Bashir, a Sudanese national with multiple ties to the Global Muslim Brotherhood.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше)

tiphareth
2018-10-16 23:33 (ссылка)

https://www.meforum.org/articles/2018/islamic-relief-charity-extremism-and-terror
A new Middle East Forum report uncovers the extremism and terror connections of the largest Islamic charity in the western world: Islamic Relief.

Despite receiving over $80 million from western taxpayers over the last ten years -- including over $700,000 from the U.S. government -- Islamic Relief is a prominent Islamist institution, closely tied to Muslim Brotherhood networks, with branches in over 20 countries.

Our report examines Islamic Relief's extremist links. We look at its key branches, its links to dangerous Islamist movements, its connections to the terrorist group Hamas, its officials’ extremism and its promotion of extremist preachers who incite hatred against both moderate Muslims and non-Muslims.

What is Islamic Relief?

Islamic Relief is one of the largest Islamic charities in the world. Founded in 1984, Islamic Relief today maintains branches and offices in over 20 countries and it has reported franchise-wide income of hundreds of millions of dollars. Western governments provide a significant proportion of this income.
Extremists at the Helm

Islamic Relief was founded - and continues to be managed - by prominent Islamist operatives. A few examples of prominent current and former IR trustees and officials include:

Hany El-Banna OBE – founder of Islamic Relief and a former trustee of several charities accused of links to Islamist extremism and terror. El-Banna established Islamic Relief while a student involved in Muslim Brotherhood circles. In 2016, El-Banna gave an interview to Al-Aqsa Voice, the official radio station of the terrorist group Hamas, during which he urged “a strong coalition” between civil society organizations and the Hamas government to “repel any foreign ideas and malignant intrusions.”
Essam El Haddad – co-founder of Islamic Relief and the foreign policy advisor to Egypt’s (now-deposed) Muslim Brotherhood President Mohamed Morsi. Egyptian law enforcement alleges that Haddad used Islamic Relief to finance the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. The Egyptian prosecution also claimed that Haddad was “financing terrorism by using global charities such as Islamic Relief.”
Khaled Lamada – chairman of Islamic Relief’s USA branch and the founder of Egyptian Americans for Democracy and Human Rights, one of the Brotherhood’s key lobbying arms in the United States. Writing and sharing Facebook posts mostly in Arabic, Lamada has circulated text praising the “jihad” of the “Mujahidin of Egypt” for “causing the Jews many defeats.” He has republished claims on Facebook that praise Hamas for inflicting a “huge defeat” against the “Zionist entity.”
Issam Al-Bashir – a prominent member of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, a body of Muslim Brotherhood clerics led by Muslim Brotherhood spiritual leader Yusuf Qaradawi, who has advocated killing Jews and homosexuals. Bashir previously served as the Minister of Guidance and Religious Endowments in the genocidal Sudanese regime.
Ahmed Al-Rawi – a former director of Islamic Relief Worldwide, who also served as a director of the Muslim Association of Britain, which the Daily Telegraph has named as the Muslim Brotherhood’s “main declared British affiliate.” In 2004, Al-Rawi signed a declaration in support of jihad against British and American forces in Iraq.

In the Gaza Strip, Islamic Relief funds organizations closely linked to the terrorist organization, Hamas. In February 2015, for example, Islamic Relief UK, using Swedish monies, funded a project run by the Al-Falah Benevolent Society to provide aid to “displaced families.” Al-Falah is run by senior Hamas figure, Ramadan Tamboura, and Jamal Hamdi Al-Haddad, who manages a Hamas-run Hebrew language program for Palestinians in Gaza titled “Know Your Enemy.”

Another key partner for Islamic Relief branches in Gaza is the Gaza Zakat Committee, also known as the Islamic Zakat Society (IZS). IZS works closely with the Hamas government. It is managed by a prominent Hamas preacher named Hazem Al-Sirraj, a former student of Hamas founder Sheikh Yassin. In 2018, Islamic Relief Worldwide submitted an appeal for $420,000 for IZS through a United Nations fundraising scheme.

Islamic Relief also maintains financial links with several terrorism-linked groups in the Middle East, including the Charitable Society for Social Welfare, which was founded by Al-Qaeda terrorist and “Bin Laden loyalist” Abdul Majeed Al-Zindani.

Governmental Support

Islamic Relief has enjoyed a great deal of access to prominent government officials. In the U.S., Islamic Relief officials have dined at the White House, accepted appointments as advisors to the State Department, and enjoyed speeches by administration officials at Islamic Relief events. In the U.K., Islamic Relief events have featured speeches by Prince Charles, the deputy Prime Minister and various cabinet ministers.

In fact, Islamic Relief enjoys the support of taxpayers and politicians across the globe. The Middle East Forum has identified over $80 million in grants and donor matching schemes from Western governments, the European Union and the United Nations since 2007.

Private Support

Between 2000 and 2016, American community and corporate foundations have given Islamic Relief over $4.3 million. The largest single donation was provided by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which handed Islamic Relief almost $1.4 million.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

kaledin
2018-10-17 01:27 (ссылка)

Ну и че? и где здесь конкретно про саудовцев? Из этого текста можно заключить, что главный спонсор исламского терроризма в мире это США. Это наверно также и правда, чисто количественно -- в конце концо, кто оплачивает UNRWA и всякое такое прочее, в конце концов. Но саудовцы получаются совершенно ни при чем.

Неразличение тяжкий грех. Кончается трампоманией, например, ну или еще какой-нибуд смешной и стыдной телесной слабостью.

По факту, саудовская политика с 70х годов была экспорт ваххабизма во-первых, и выдавливание экстремизма наружу во-вторых. Но где-то лет 15 назад оно начало меняться, и сейчас поменялось уже вплоть до почти открытой войны (типа наезда на Катар, и свержения Мурси по четкому саудовскому указанию и на саудовские деньги). Я уверен, что Хамас они сейчас не только не поддерживают государственно, но также и реально запрещают поддерживать его частным лицам. А египтяне, ри поддержке судовцев, хамасовцев просто убивают.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2018-10-17 04:18 (ссылка)

>Я уверен, что Хамас они сейчас не только
>не поддерживают государственно, но также
>и реально запрещают поддерживать его частным лицам.

это официальная позиция, которую они пытаются впарить американцам
я не очень верю в подобные заявления пропаганды

хотя может и так, конечно, хз
все эти фонды до того мутные, что отследить
по открытым источникам нельзя

но из этого скорее следует, что врут, чем что не врут

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

kaledin
2018-10-17 05:29 (ссылка)

>это официальная позиция

Это была всего лишь официальная позиция в 2004 году. А в 2013 они муслимское братство (спонсируемое Катаром) тысячами убивали на улицах. Ты как будто в танке все это время провел.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2018-10-17 06:31 (ссылка)

слушай, тот же islamic relief
состоит из муслимских братьев-салафитов
но отлично спонсирует хизбаллу и хамас,
берет деньги от ирана и сирии

притом те же салафиты убивают шиитов только так

мораль: если муслимы из двух сект ислама друг друга порезали,
это ничего не говорит об отношении сект, тем более - по финансам

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	kaledin 2018-10-17 06:49 (ссылка)
	>состоит из муслимских братьев-салафитов но отлично спонсирует хизбаллу и хамас, берет деньги от ирана и сирии Именно; а саудовцы ни при чем. (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tiphareth 2018-10-17 12:31 (ссылка)
	>а саудовцы ни при чем голословное заявление (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	kaledin 2018-10-17 17:50 (ссылка)
	Твое: я просто суммирую твои цитаты (где слова "саудовцы" нет). (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	tiphareth 2018-10-17 17:52 (ссылка)
	понятно, что нет все отмывается через промежуточные фонды во избежание претензий от американской администрации (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	kaledin 2018-10-17 17:53 (ссылка)
	Ну ок. Но с голословностью, как ты понимаешь... (Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2018-10-17 17:56 (ссылка)

Если саудовцы эти фонды (а равно и хамас) создали и
кормили 20 лет подряд, странно, если по щелчку из
госдепа они это прекратят. Проще предположить, что
они станут лучше отмывать деньги.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

	kaledin 2018-10-17 18:06 (ссылка)
	>по щелчку из госдепа Ты вообще читаешь то, на что отвечаешь? Причем здесь госдеп вообще? (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

kaledin
2018-10-17 05:33 (ссылка)

В смысле, это все не значит, что они перестали быть говном -- говном оно были и будут всегда, потому что петрократия, тут без вариантов. Но это говно другого сорта, которое -- возможно -- отличается по единственно важному для нормальных людей параметру (отношение к Израилю). Ожидать от говна что оно станет конфеткой это верх дебилизма; а вот что прекратит неявную войну против Израиля -- это вполне возможно.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

tiphareth
2018-10-17 06:41 (ссылка)

оптимистично донельзя
нет, так не будет

в эмиратах, возможно, в катаре, в бахрейне,
но в саудовской аравии - никогда
причина этого - мекка, у саудовцев доходов от хаджа
больше, чем от нефти, причем косвенного профита (через
возможность влиять на исламских мракобесов) еще больше

так что никакого умеренного ислама там никогда не будет,
хуле им доходность актива понижать

(Ответить) (Уровень выше) (Ветвь дискуссии)

kaledin
2018-10-17 06:58 (ссылка)

>но в саудовской аравии - никогда

Да блядь уже. Ну, у меня не то, чтобы большой опыт, но статью в их журнал я подавал. Приняли, с очень качественной рецензией. Вопрос на понимание реальностей: сколько человек в редколлегии не являются откровенными жидами, и где живет и работает рецензент.

>у саудовцев доходов от хаджа больше, чем от нефти

Глупости.

Причем если оно вернется к тому, что было в начале 70х -- вполне умереному -- доходы от хаджа вообще не изменятся. А хули, у шахидов собственного бабла нет, они все нищеброды. От них одни убытки. Бабло от богатых индонезийцев и пр.

Саудовцы радикализовались по довольно случайным причинам: во первых, афганская война, во-вторых, почему бы и нет, и в третьих, чтобы утихомирить собственных ебанутых. Но этот ресурс утихомиривания нафиг исчерпан. А после площади Тахрир реакция на исламское волеизьявление там, я полагаю, примерно как у Геббельса на культуру.

Это катарский просвещенный эмир играет в демократию, пытается услышать глас народа типа (явленный нам в ощущениях в виде хамаса и муслимского братства). А эти на глас народа стреляют -- как только подаст голос, так сразу пулю.

(Ответить) (Уровень выше)

	(Анонимно) 2018-10-18 04:37 (ссылка)
	Да по любасу экспертнее тебя, чмо математическое. (Ответить) (Уровень выше)

balalajkin
2018-10-16 12:51 (ссылка)

На сегодняшний день у них операция идет в два шага.

1) саудиты качают деньги в благотворительные организации стран 1го мира, но возглавляемые саудитскими же клериками (на худой конец египетскими), причем деньги саудитов смешиваются с благотворительностью (фактически налогом) из самих стран 1го мира, - участвуют все мусульмане

- see Ismamic Relief

2) Эти организации затем перекачивают все то же бабло Хамасу и прочим, но уже отмытое до ангельской белизны

(Ответить) (Уровень выше)

(Читать комментарии) -